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Thursday, January 14th 2010, 3:57am

Planting needs balancing - Poll.

As per this:

I will post a poll to see what the players think of the fairness of the current system.


The problem:
As it currently is, a few planter alts (since planting requires almost nothing but idle time for plants to grow, it is pretty much the same wether you have 1 or 10, which seems to be the trend among a few planters in our server) can produce redicilous amounts of crafting materials in comparison to gathering skills.

A gatherer can gather around 4 stacks (400) of whites per hour if he has a nice route planned out and there are no other gatherers around - that's 2 stacks of greens or 33 blues - gathering 24/7 and sleeping 8 hours a day (this assuming you are lvl 55 and capable of 1- or 2- hitting all monsters that are in your way, otherwise the efficiency goes down even more), a gatherer can gather ~533 blues in 36 hours, of that time, he will spend over 5 hours turning the materials from white to blue...

...or he can just level up planting with say... 7 alts, use approximately 20 minutes per day watering the plants and get more (up to 100 blues per planter alt) materials that have already been turned into blues for him.

Where's the fairness in this? The gatherer will be spending the rest of his life gathering materials while the planter is required to do nothing and still get more out of it than the gatherer ever will.

There are a multitude of solutions to this, but the most fair I believe would be to first include a level requirement for planting plants (a lvl 50 character would be able to plant lvl 50 seeds to a lvl 50 pot) to actually make planting require something and then speed up gathering / turning materials into greens/blues.

Why? Because a lvl 1 gatherer cannot ever go and gather the materials because the monsters will eat him alive, so why should a planter be given the freedom to get everything without leveling up, as the gatherers have to?

Other than that, it should not be made possible for a single player to have 5-10 (or even more) planter alts that get him a huge load of materials for doing absolutely nothing.

Pre-made argument counters:
"But leveling planting takes a long time"
-Yes, and leveling gathering skills and a character to 55 takes less time you think? The problem is not that planting itself is broken, the problem is that as it currently is, people can level up 10 planter alts with the same amount of trouble that they would level up 1 planter alt.

"Your calculations are wrong"
-Yes they are, a gatherer will never be able to gather anywhere without other gatherers being around, so you can cut the values I have given by a third. Also, people need to eat and live their lives, so adding up these two, you can propably cut the values I have given in half, not to mention that even trying to gather at this speed will quickly make the gatherer go nuts and jump off a balcony, so balancing it would also decrease suicide rates among RoM players.

Simple alternative:
The most simple alternative would be to make gathering the planted materials require the respective gathering skills at the correct level for the material.


Thursday, January 14th 2010, 9:41am

Let the planting as it is now. Even a lvl1 noob can start planting or gathering and make money from it.

Let the gatherers if they have time for it to gather as they had done it before (new 1 klick system is even helping them).
The lvl44 nodes are really not worth gathering with the really long respawn times as they are now.

Finally a really good system in RoM what doesent need any modification.


Thursday, January 14th 2010, 11:01am

A gatherer can gather on multiclient , especially with 1-click gathering (when 1 char gathers, 2 others are going to new plant).


Thursday, January 14th 2010, 4:35pm

After gathering was implements on market appear lots of mats - easier and cheaper to lvl crafting skills (except mats required for elite skills, you don't use mats for anything else), is this bad? I skipped leveling crafting before, due to huge number of required mats and very high prices for those on market (there were just not enough dedicated gatherers on servers, so prices for gathered mats were very high), after planting was implemented i could restart crafting again (i can plant now most mats for myself and gather some, if needed). If some gatherers lots profits from gathering, why they not invest in planting too? You can do both, use planting and gather mats (some rare mats are still only available from grathering).
IGN: Elluna (Knight/Priest) / Arebell (Warden/Scout) - The Factory / Macantacht


Thursday, January 14th 2010, 11:31pm

You can finally lvl crafting fairly easily, not spending whole days gathering the same mats. The prices of mats, potions etc. go down and I don't see people buying those complaining. Maybe it isn't planters who are greedy, huh?


PS. I didn't see the notion of making all crafts lvl dependant here, which would be a natural next step...
PPS. The last options at the poll show 'subjective objectivity' :) which is unfair. U don't want an opinion just to complain because you make less money now?


Thursday, January 14th 2010, 11:51pm

Mayby whining gatherers should start to use planting and buy some irl time this way? Planting is ok. Crafting should be changed. At the moment only alchemy and cooking are worth to spend money and time. Nothing more really.


Friday, January 15th 2010, 6:03am

Quoted from "Robwinter1;1493014"

PPS. The last options at the poll show 'subjective objectivity' :) which is unfair. U don't want an opinion just to complain because you make less money now?

Well, we start with the argument "Planting needs balancing"[1], which is being supported by the fact that by planting, people get a lot more materials for significantly less amount of work than by gathering [2], not to mention it is only one skill, while gathering requires 3, all in all making gathering obsolete altogether.

If we accept the argument [1] based on the fact [2], which is indeniable, we can only conclude that the only reason anyone would be against it would be because of personal greed, which is reflected in the choises (the two bottom-most choises reflect an opinion that things are fine as they are and nothing should be done, while the 3rd option leaves room to other solutions, for exmple by buffing gathering instead of nerfing planting).

Thus the choises are not unfair :)

PS. Once my planter alt army is completed, I will propably dominate the potion / food market on the server, so whatever happens, I win :guitar:... But still, I want fair play, meaning that those who have leveled their gathering should not be left to bite the dust, but be brought up to the same level as everyone else (read: planters) by some means.


Friday, January 15th 2010, 9:18am

If so then why wish you to change planting?The gathering and refinning should be a lot more less time consuming esp. the refinning.


Friday, January 15th 2010, 1:39pm

I agree - maybe it is gathering that need balancing then :).


Friday, January 15th 2010, 4:03pm

Quoted from "tikitaki23;1493593"

If so then why wish you to change planting?The gathering and refinning should be a lot more less time consuming esp. the refinning.

The 3rd option in the poll is for this (other solutions).


Friday, January 15th 2010, 4:36pm

Quoted from "tikitaki23;1493593"

If so then why wish you to change planting?The gathering and refinning should be a lot more less time consuming esp. the refinning.

+1 The refining is to much time consuming.



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Saturday, January 16th 2010, 3:12am

I have voted Yes, with the planting success tied to the gathering skills level, so that you can use and harvest only seeds for mats you are able to gather...

I suggests also to put a very, very, very low chance to get rare (like rosmary) or refined green normal mats (like mountain demon grass bundle) from planting and NONE AT ALL to get blue or better (saps, extracts, etc.)... Those things should be unique to the gathering skills...

Collection potions could permit to seed some plants not normally allowed, due to low gathering skill level, that once seeded could be harvested normally, even after the potion expired...


Saturday, January 16th 2010, 11:46am

I think, the best way to make gathering useful again is removing the "Bind on equip" from the blue crafting recipes, largely increasing their AH-Value - What's the point of that? well, these need purple normal mats and blue rare mats - both are only available through the gatherers.

oh, and maybe add some blue potions, too.

then again: i crafted a purple 115 dura blue based Lvl 44 Hat which sold for 210k gold - not too bad, I think...


Sunday, January 17th 2010, 12:04pm

Planting needs a F...g nerf bat seriously either ppl who think its fine lack of brain or their just ignorant.
Single planter 40+ can deliver over 120 saps which is equal to 1400+ material gathered which takes you approx 7+ hours to gather+process.
So lets get the numbers working :

Harvest is every 36 hours /7 = 5 and something there doesnt matter.
If ud do gathering non stop for 36 hours and processing ud equalize a person who runs couple planters but then you would probably flip.

What about ppl who run 8 of them or even 16? Those combined with any crafting profession be it cooking/alchemy can screw up whole market in matter of weeks.
Heres an example from Siochain month ago

Hero potion - 35k+ now seen em sold for 18k already
Dooms Banquet -40k down to 20/21k

Same goes for materials the auction house is flooded with every piece of food bein sold even below production costs because any planter can afford that due to 0 amount of spent effort when compared to gatherers.
Sure it takes time to raise planters to 40+ but its nowhere near of bein hard.
For the record im running 16 planters and ive got both alchemy and cooking in case if youd liek to question something.

I believe adding level requirement equal to planting level so it matches characters level will put most of planters out of their position thus making it impossible to multiaccount 15 lvl 1-10 alts with maxed out planting.
This could be the best solution actually or they could release 50+ recipes and make it so planting doesnt give the highest level materials as it has been until recent patch.

It rather seems some ppl just enjoy making their bits of money while the prices are still at decent level but their gonna drop down more and competition will get tougher then they might change their vievpoint


Sunday, January 17th 2010, 8:26pm

Planting system needs to be rebuild, as some ppl said, using plants you can get more materials than a gather for few seconds invest a day.

Gathering is free, and Planting consumes a lot gold (at lvl 40+), in the other hand Gathering consumes time and Plantig don't. So... to be balanced i vote for "If you use planting-system, you must have the same level (or 5 down) than seeds you're planting."

PD: It will not be especially coherent in roleplaying terms but it will balance the system).



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Monday, January 18th 2010, 3:07pm

Some months back, when planting was implemented, there were some people who said one has to be crazy to start planting to only harvest small amounts of wood, herb or ore in the 36 hours it took to care for the plant. They said they could gather more mats in 36 hours than a planter ever could harvest. Well, where are those people now?

And like Mothertree said planting consumes a lot of gold. The pots alone at level 55 cost for 1 planter 58000 gold. Then there are still the costs for the seeds, the fertilizer and the water.

If planting is changed, I think that gatherers also should buy equip so they can gather. For example an axe to cut wood. Or that they should pay for refining. At the moment they don't have to invest gold for anything.
18.09.10 M/P 60/48 | 20.03.11 M/P 62/62 :D - inaktiv
Five exclamation marks, the sure sign of an insane mind. - Windle Poons in "Reaper Man" by Terry Pratchett


Monday, January 18th 2010, 5:09pm

+1 At lvl60 planting to get 250 water and 250 dirt from the lvl55 ones costs 25000 gold, or if I would to use the blue lvl40 ones would cost me 150k.The seeds cost also 1600/pc and add to that the zeus pot cost in diamonds to(190 D/alt).


Tuesday, January 19th 2010, 5:05am

Quoted from "magicalkeys;1504669"

And like Mothertree said planting consumes a lot of gold. The pots alone at level 55 cost for 1 planter 58000 gold. Then there are still the costs for the seeds, the fertilizer and the water.

That's kinda irrelevant when harvesting each pot once gives you around 500-600k worth of materials.

Have you tried buying all the necessary receipes for gathering skills so you can make greens and blues? That costs a hell of a lot more than a few seeds and pots.


Tuesday, January 19th 2010, 8:50am

Are you joking?
In order to get 500-600k/pot you need to get min 50 blue material from that pot and IF the price in AH is good. And i can say that now, with NPC materials you ll never get 50 blue from one pot.
I don t get it, people get 2 ways to raise the crafting skills or make some gold and they ONLY ask for nerf. Good job!
And btw the last three questions from the poll are very funny.;)


Tuesday, January 19th 2010, 9:03am

celcel: Please get your planting alts to lvl60 planting and then return here arguing the costs involved in planting.