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21

Monday, December 29th 2008, 8:38pm

Quoted from "ARTmatters;430283"

Umm..Is this not similar to the Rogue Q&A thread. Sure it is not as detailed and formated yet however, the idea was formatted first by Wirewitch. Unless you guys planned this together then sure its fine however, if it was not this thread is a copy of Rogue Q&A Thread and thus should be credited to first wirewitch.

Sure many of us had these kind of ideas however, no one did take iniative except wirewitch who was first.

Anyways that my opinion. You should discuss this with wirewitch imo before further continuing with this thread.


And be sure to credit Mister Gore, for allowing you to post this on the internet in the first place.
And of course, to credit me, for my astounding contributions to the written word that pre-empt this thread, so I should receive some credit for paving the way for this community project.

Silliness aside, this doesn't look like a Q&A thread to me, more like a wikipedia (better credit them! Okay, sorry I'm done) of rogue knowledge.

My contribution:

Rogue/Scout: Pros: Some truly amazing elite skills, pure damage dealer combo. You'll be great against bosses with both the rogue and scout debuffs, so long as somebody else is tanking it for you. Shot is highly spammable with a fast crossbow, and vampire arrows is simply one of the best DoT skills in the game.

Cons: Scout/Rogue elite skills are as terrible as rogue/scout skills are awesome. Glass cannon syndrome, and total reliance on priest or potion. Loses you the use of projectile and numbing dagger (no big loss).

Dedicated Rogue/Scout (as opposed to Scout/Rogues) skill choice:

Shot: If you boost it, it will be useful damage when running too (or from) mobs, if you don't, it's still a decent lure for selecting targets. Either way, it's free.
Protip: Shot works with premeditation too; if you're pulling with it, wait for the monster to turn its back to you, then Premedishoot it in the back like the dirty little sniper you are.

Vampire Arrows: Max it; anyone who says this skill isn't awesome is an ignorant foreigner. Now it's been upgraded, you can basically keep a single target constantly bleeding to death.
Protip: It's all too easy to waste Vampire Arrows on a weakened enemy that's about to die. Try to avoid this; you'll appreciate 800+ points of damage a lot more on that enemy on full health that's hitting you than 150 points of damage you could have knifed in half a second anyway.

Swiftness: More dexterity means more damage, for everything you do. Max this skill. Max it hard.

Throat Attack: This skill will cause four seconds of silence with your level 20 elite skill; this doesn't change at all with TP investment, so leave it at 0. This is also a cheap spell interrupt, which is great, since mage-types are rogue/scout kryptonite, and you're going to be close enough to use it, unlike the scout.
Protip: Resist the urge to macro this, it's got a pretty long cooldown and you'll want it handy to manually mess up a caster.

Wrist Attack: I've not seen an enemy this hasn't worked on yet, including instance bosses. If you've points spare, 5 seconds of reduced damage on the person taking hits for you is golden.
Protip: Unlike Scout/Rogues, who need the Focus for wind arrows, you might as well slip in the focus-intensive wrist attack whenever you can; rogues have no trouble keeping focus high, and you'll appreciate the reduced damage if you're the one taking hits.

Joint Blow: Do not increase. Not only does it not really improve damage, or amount slowed, but you're melee, and this skill is for escaping melee, understand?
Note for Scout/Rogue dabblers - Joint Blow works with the elite skill joint cripple to totally disable movement like a shorter duration melee lasso that doesn't end with damage. Still don't boost it, you don't want to be in melee, and lasso is much better.
Protip: The only use for joint blow is when you're about to bounce. Make this decision sooner, rather than later.
For maximum survivability use both kinds of HP pot, stab each thing attacking you in the leg and head for the hills (literally) using sideways movement to avoid being slowed yourself. A lot of slopes you can jump up are insurmountable barriers that the slowed mobs will have to walk around, giving you the chance to go hide like the cowardly rogue you are.

Bloody Arrow: Unless you're planning on using this skill to suicide in order to avoid experience debt, do not increase or use this skill; you're not ranged, and for 90% of scout/rogues, the only time worth using this skill is when you're about to Arrow of Essence.

Speed Shooting: The only reason I can think of for you to increase this skill as a rogue/scout is if you just have too much TP. The only thing it benefits is Shot, and there are better things to buy, even for Scout/Rogues.

All my suggestions are for PvE purposes only.
[img]For the Glory of the Empire, click the picture.[/img]

Gabriel - Scout/Rogue - Siochan Server

22

Monday, December 29th 2008, 9:03pm

Quoted from "ARTmatters;430283"

Umm..Is this not similar to the Rogue Q&A thread. Sure it is not as detailed and formated yet however, the idea was formatted first by Wirewitch. Unless you guys planned this together then sure its fine however, if it was not this thread is a copy of Rogue Q&A Thread and thus should be credited to first wirewitch.

Sure many of us had these kind of ideas however, no one did take iniative except wirewitch who was first.

Anyways that my opinion. You should discuss this with wirewitch imo before further continuing with this thread.


Quoted from "Kholai;430381"

And be sure to credit Mister Gore, for allowing you to post this on the internet in the first place.
And of course, to credit me, for my astounding contributions to the written word that pre-empt this thread, so I should receive some credit for paving the way for this community project.

Silliness aside, this doesn't look like a Q&A thread to me, more like a wikipedia (better credit them! Okay, sorry I'm done) of rogue knowledge.


Is that your arguement against what I said? Instead your making me sound like an idiot f.y.i. What I said made sense. This "idea" was first and foremost created in this 'place' by wirewitch. Do you understand people get paid for thinking of ideas? So if everyone were to do this then the whole world would be plagiarizers.

Questions and Answer Thread is basically the the idea of The Community Rogue Guide. Exactly the base of this thread would be based on Q&A, however, it was not due to the fact the Q&A thread was not thoroughly started.

If copying someone elses idea is your way of helping the community whatever go ahead, as for myself I will not unless wirewitch gets credited first and foremost for firstly taking the iniative and starting these chain of events.

It is not hard to create something like this, Maiya may have pmed those people that created those guides in order to place them here. Sure she did a lot of work for this thread however, the idea was stolen. Example: Your in school, you forget to cite one quote, its an automatic fail.

So stop trying to make people sound like idiots, the only idiot here is you trying to demean people on the forums.

Hopefully Maiya understands this, she credited everyone except wirewitch who was generally the foundation and the base of this thread.

"And of course, to credit me, for my astounding contributions to the written word that pre-empt this thread, so I should receive some credit for paving the way for this community project."

Are you an idiot? I'm sorry for calling you an idiot so many times but honestly its the truth. Okay let Maiya rip all those guides and not give credit to those people. Those people work hard to create those guides in order to help people.
FML - midterms Scout/Warrior. Liberty.
Rogue/Mage max.

23

Monday, December 29th 2008, 10:04pm

bravo on the flowchart maiya...i think that will be very helpful to a lot of people who are just starting to look at playing rogue...i know there are a lot of people who ask me in game what would be a good 2ndary so now i can just send them here...lol

i understand where u r coming fro art and i dont think maiya would be opposed to giving credit to someone who has also provided info on rogue stuff (gosh she gave credit to me for my 1 day experience with rogue/priest...lol...i will play more i promise...lol...and maiya seems like a reasonable person...) but i do understand where kholai came from but i dont think credi to wirewitch can hurt...

and i completely agree with kholai's statements about rogue/scout...i think he hit it pretty much right on! i really wanted to add something to it (since it is the only other rogue combo i have made) but i dont think i can...lol


oh and thanks for adding the rest of the elite skills from rogue 2ndaries!

24

Monday, December 29th 2008, 10:09pm

Nice guide, sticky please.

For shadowface, I think it would be helpful to upgrade in the low levels 1~15 and stop around there, since blind spot will be way more helpful later.

For Rogue/Knight..

Pros: Boosts the rogue's low hp and defense. Also, there are passive knight skills that really helps out, like enhance armor(increases def) and the one which increases stamina. Disarmament is also a nice skill too because you can spam it 4x and decrease the enemy's armor def and deal more damage.

Cons: Hmm.. can't really think of any. Maybe no good secondary damage skill? Also the knight does not provide any range skills like the scout.

25

Monday, December 29th 2008, 10:15pm

Quoted from "vulcanfire;430551"

Nice guide, sticky please.

For shadowface, I think it would be helpful to upgrade in the low levels 1~15 and stop around there, since blind spot will be way more helpful later.


oh yeah i forgot to mention this in the last post...lol

i think u recieve a tp reset rune at lvl 30 (gift bag thing...can someone confirm this i havent gotten there yet) and you dont get shadow step until 28 or something (i think that is what i read...) so u could lvl up shadowface the whole time if u dont plan on using blind spot until u get shadowstep and then just reset ur tp to fill in blind spot...

i personally am having trouble deciding which strategy to go for (sneaky or in ur face) so i havent put any points into sf and so far it is working fine since even at lvl 50 it wont even be as strong as a normal attack (so the upgrades dont make a huge difference i just use it right now as a combo starter...)

i will be testing out bs in 1 lvl though just to see if i like...so my opinions may change soon...

26

Monday, December 29th 2008, 10:21pm

Necario: Great questions!
You inspired me to make a flowchart ^^ (I saved the PSD so I can edit it)
We need some Rogue/Warriors and Rogue/Knights in here so we can compare! =)


Kholai: Thanks! I'll be adding your contribution shortly.


ARTmatters: err.. lol okay...

This thread was inspired by the lack of a comprensive rogue guide. I've written guides before for other games I've played, and usually spend most of the time writing "This is just my opinion", so this time I figure, why not have everyone's opinion, like a wiki.

Although there is an empty FAQ/QnA section, I don't really see how this guide is ripping off a Q & A thread, as this guide has way more then just Q & A, and no actual Q & A has even been added yet.

And TBH, no offense to wirewitch, but taking a look at the thread your talking about, This thread is not only more organized, covers more ground but already has more information. Best of luck to wirewitch, but they are hardly the same thread.

If I do borrow anything thing from the Q & A thread (once it gets things to borrow), I'll be sure to ask the poster and credit both the poster and wirewitch.

Also I don't really appreciate this allegation:

Quoted


Okay let Maiya rip all those guides and not give credit to those people


I've only borrowed from 1 guide, TheRake's Elite Skill one and I gave credit to him, everyone he credited, linked to his thread several times and TheRake said it was okay
.
I have no problem giving credit where credit is due, I even put the names of everyone who's contributed a post on the last part...but you are wrong, and I do not like the negative tone you have brought to an otherwise positive thread.

I would rather this thread not get derailed or turned into a flame war, so I ask that you please stop, and if you have any problems with me to take it to PM.

[LEFT]"all of these stars ... these vast worlds that remain out of reach. If I could, I would annex other planets"
[RIGHT] -Cecil Rhodes[/RIGHT]
[/LEFT]

EstebanPR

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Occupation: Student - Computer Engineering

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27

Monday, December 29th 2008, 10:31pm

-Stickied for now.
**********
Forum Rules of Conduct

[EU]Support
"Searchie", he's your friend, use him before asking any questions.
**********


28

Monday, December 29th 2008, 11:01pm

Wewt! Rogue/Knight!

Thank you Vulcan. Added=)

Thanks Gym, thats true, I heard that about the TP reset rune as well. Very Clever!

Now all we need is some confirmation regarding the lvl 30 bag. Since this was newly added I believe?


Vulcan, do you think after level 30 there, if we get the tp reset in the gift bag, we should keep any points in SF or just take em all out?


Gym, I go for sneaky as my first option of attack, but without shadow step, sometimes you get discovered before you can sneak attack.. also when things aggro you and you're soloing.
so until lvl 28, I'd say.. a little of column A and a little of column B. :p

Thank you for the Sticky Esteban!

[LEFT]"all of these stars ... these vast worlds that remain out of reach. If I could, I would annex other planets"
[RIGHT] -Cecil Rhodes[/RIGHT]
[/LEFT]

29

Monday, December 29th 2008, 11:04pm

Sigh, whatever. I have already proven my arguement however, what you pointed at me I have proven also. Anyways best of luck on this thread..
FML - midterms Scout/Warrior. Liberty.
Rogue/Mage max.

30

Tuesday, December 30th 2008, 12:26am

double post sorry.

31

Tuesday, December 30th 2008, 12:29am

Quoted from "ARTmatters;430445"

Is that your arguement against what I said? Instead your making me sound like an idiot f.y.i. What I said made sense. This "idea" was first and foremost created in this 'place' by wirewitch. Do you understand people get paid for thinking of ideas? So if everyone were to do this then the whole world would be plagiarizers.

Questions and Answer Thread is basically the the idea of The Community Rogue Guide. Exactly the base of this thread would be based on Q&A, however, it was not due to the fact the Q&A thread was not thoroughly started.

If copying someone elses idea is your way of helping the community whatever go ahead, as for myself I will not unless wirewitch gets credited first and foremost for firstly taking the iniative and starting these chain of events.

It is not hard to create something like this, Maiya may have pmed those people that created those guides in order to place them here. Sure she did a lot of work for this thread however, the idea was stolen. Example: Your in school, you forget to cite one quote, its an automatic fail.

So stop trying to make people sound like idiots, the only idiot here is you trying to demean people on the forums.

Hopefully Maiya understands this, she credited everyone except wirewitch who was generally the foundation and the base of this thread.

"And of course, to credit me, for my astounding contributions to the written word that pre-empt this thread, so I should receive some credit for paving the way for this community project."

Are you an idiot? I'm sorry for calling you an idiot so many times but honestly its the truth. Okay let Maiya rip all those guides and not give credit to those people. Those people work hard to create those guides in order to help people.

-Teresa


Quoted from "ARTmatters;430283"

Umm..Is this not similar to the Rogue Q&A thread. Sure it is not as detailed and formated yet however, the idea was formatted first by Wirewitch. Unless you guys planned this together then sure its fine however, if it was not this thread is a copy of Rogue Q&A Thread and thus should be credited to first wirewitch.

Sure many of us had these kind of ideas however, no one did take iniative except wirewitch who was first.

Anyways that my opinion. You should discuss this with wirewitch imo before further continuing with this thread.


I kinda have to agree with what ARTmatters has said however, you don't want anymore flaming so good luck with this thread. As for myself I will not contribute also because I'm really busy and I also agree with ART.

Also Maiya I believe you misunderstood ART about "Okay let Maiya rip everything etc" it was like a tone arguement against that guy.

tehrocker

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32

Tuesday, December 30th 2008, 1:40am

I absolutely love what you are doing here!
I mean, this is like so useful and all, I should say, sticky, immediately o.o !
Kudos to you <3 !

You have earned my respect, lol ;p
[img][/img]

33

Tuesday, December 30th 2008, 2:32am

Quoted from "Maiya;430667"



Vulcan, do you think after level 30 there, if we get the tp reset in the gift bag, we should keep any points in SF or just take em all out?



IMO, I don't think it's necessary to put any tp points into SF after you reset because at level 30, you will have access to shadow step already...so you can easily perform shadow step -> blind spot -> villainy -> laceration since blind spot also adds a bleed effect(it's not on the skill description though). Even if you level SF to like +20, the damage is really low compared to blind spot.

Also, even if you don't put any points into SF at all, you can still use it to activate villainy and laceration anyways if you don't like using blind spot all the time.

But anyways, it's really a matter of preference. If you like SF more than blind spot, go for it.

34

Tuesday, December 30th 2008, 3:11am

Thanks TehRocker ^^

I agree Vulvan, I'm sold!

When I did CB, on my first Rogue, I didn't upgrade SF at all, I didn't have any problems until Gabe, who was also testing the rogue and was maxing SF, and I were competing for monsters, and I noticed he was killing slightly faster then me. I upgraded on my 2nd Rogue and noticed a difference.

That was at lowbie levels though, I agree that Blind Spot does way more Damage and is probably the better canidate for upgrade.

So hows this sound for addition:

Shadow Face
Optional upgrade up until you have Blind spot & Hide. Then switch focus to Blind Spot, which also has a bleed effect and does more damage.
At lvl 30 use the free TP reset to take out the previous points in Shadow Face.
- Added by vulcanfire, gymboy91 & Maiya

[LEFT]"all of these stars ... these vast worlds that remain out of reach. If I could, I would annex other planets"
[RIGHT] -Cecil Rhodes[/RIGHT]
[/LEFT]

35

Tuesday, December 30th 2008, 4:18am

Quoted from "vulcanfire;430551"

Maybe no good secondary damage skill?

My Disarmament is currently 102% weapon damage at +35, which stacks to something like 37% armor penetration at the moment.

Quoted

Also the knight does not provide any range skills like the scout.

Rogue has Combo Throw for their primary; they don't need a ranged skill from their secondary.

36

Tuesday, December 30th 2008, 4:56am

Quoted from "Maiya;430255"

Added Durete's Rogue/Scout Pros & Cons. ^^ Thank you!

Durete, Besides spamming pots, do you have any other techniques in PvE to stay alive?
Any specific skill combos or stratiegic positioning?

well vs higher levelled mobs:

start on high terrain, shoot vampire arrow, and shot untill they come close, at that time they should have some damage,
after that just shadowface-villainy, throat rip vs casting mobs, if they do really much damage I use an blind stab ocasionally.


if you're low health or the mob does to much damage:
fight like an scout.
vampire arrow>shot spam while kiting the mob around.
if they come close,shadowface>villainy>joint break(40% slow) and start running again with the vampire arrow>shot spam.

vs multiple mobs the only way to survive is to use the 10 min CD,
Blind stab on the main mob and the ability to lower damage gained by 25% (can't login atm so can't check the exact %/skillname for that last one)

37

Tuesday, December 30th 2008, 3:27pm

Although I never played the combination rogue/knight, I could imagine that on the downside you just get a relativly modest bonus from the stats, especially the damage bonus seems to be relativly poor, when compared to rogue/warrior.
Or do I get this wrong?

But I have to admit, besides this, rogue/knight seems to be a the most acceptable rogue combination, if you don't like long-range combat and want to have a higher survivability. The combination rogue/warrior seems to have less pros.
Whenever you notice a mistake in my posts or whenever you have a suggestion for improvement, please point it out to me!

38

Tuesday, December 30th 2008, 4:27pm

Quoted from "Maiya;430985"



So hows this sound for addition:

Shadow Face
Optional upgrade up until you have Blind spot & Hide. Then switch focus to Blind Spot, which also has a bleed effect and does more damage.
At lvl 30 use the free TP reset to take out the previous points in Shadow Face.
- Added by vulcanfire, gymboy91 & Maiya


I would just make sure to add somewhere that you would do this if looking at a "sneaky" build vs the "in your face" one cuz if people dont want to use hide all the time then blind spot becomes much harder to pull off and people may just want to use sf instead too...but you could put a little * saying that the suggested build would be to use bs but not if you dont want to sneak around ur targets all the time...just a thought...u dont have to add it...

39

Tuesday, December 30th 2008, 6:22pm

Quoted from "RacthohOfAnthor;431102"

My Disarmament is currently 102% weapon damage at +35, which stacks to something like 37% armor penetration at the moment.


Rogue has Combo Throw for their primary; they don't need a ranged skill from their secondary.


What would be some Cons for Rogue/Knight?

[LEFT]"all of these stars ... these vast worlds that remain out of reach. If I could, I would annex other planets"
[RIGHT] -Cecil Rhodes[/RIGHT]
[/LEFT]

40

Tuesday, December 30th 2008, 6:23pm

Quoted from "Durete;431158"

well vs higher levelled mobs:

start on high terrain, shoot vampire arrow, and shot untill they come close, at that time they should have some damage,
after that just shadowface-villainy, throat rip vs casting mobs, if they do really much damage I use an blind stab ocasionally.


if you're low health or the mob does to much damage:
fight like an scout.
vampire arrow>shot spam while kiting the mob around.
if they come close,shadowface>villainy>joint break(40% slow) and start running again with the vampire arrow>shot spam.

vs multiple mobs the only way to survive is to use the 10 min CD,
Blind stab on the main mob and the ability to lower damage gained by 25% (can't login atm so can't check the exact %/skillname for that last one)


Sweet, thanks added. I took a guess that the skill you were talking about was Wristcut. Let me know if that's right. ^^

[LEFT]"all of these stars ... these vast worlds that remain out of reach. If I could, I would annex other planets"
[RIGHT] -Cecil Rhodes[/RIGHT]
[/LEFT]