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Challenger

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1

Sunday, November 20th 2016, 8:51pm

Match system

we matched with a 1,7k guild today there were 20 guilds between our and their points, did gf monkeys break match system (again)?

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2

Sunday, November 20th 2016, 9:45pm

as i remember, 20 guilds is the max you can get with difference in the points.

Challenger

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Sunday, November 20th 2016, 11:36pm

thought it was 10, isnt 20 too much difference?

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4

Monday, November 21st 2016, 12:04am

well 20 is a lot for sure, issue is, if you do 10 you end up fighting the same guilds even more then you currently already do.

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Thursday, January 11th 2018, 10:34am

Necro.

This is still an issue today. I know there was a similar thread in the US forums and Cenre had the same argument as the one in this one.

well 20 is a lot for sure, issue is, if you do 10 you end up fighting the same guilds even more then you currently already do.
I'd rather fight the same people daily where there's a chance it's an even, fun fight than have a variety of stomps on a daily basis. Just wondering, if any Asgardians are on the forums, would you rather face one of Immortal, Exercitus, Dragonlords, Sacred, Insomnia everyday you signed up or do you like the current variety of 10k- guilds you're currently being paired with at the moment? Same question to those 10k- pt guilds, would you rather fight people around your rank daily than just get randomly thrown against a 30k+ guild?

If a guild is strong enough, they'll climb the ranks and get to the top sieges eventually. Think about professional boxing. Gotta "win the right" to fight the champion by beating lower ranked fighters.

Now with that in mind here is what I'd suggest:
  • Pair guilds by points AND ONLY points: More on this later
  • Time of signing up should NOT affect pairings:
    -Right now it seems that if there's an odd number of sign ups, the last guild to sign up is the one left without a pairing, even if that guild were the top guild, which is dumb. In my opinion, the guild left with no pairing should be the very bottom one. Make this as an incentive to NOT be at the bottom of guild standings. And honestly lowest point guild is most likely an alt guild anyway.
  • Castle Level/Building Level should NOT affect pairing: (Not sure if it's still a thing, just don't add it)
    Doesn't matter if a castle has high level buildings, if the players in that guild are not the best
On to the pairing system:

This is the example guild table:

Rank
Guild
Points
1A430,000
2B75,000
3C48,000
4D43,000
5E38,000
6F32,000
7G36,000
8H22,000
9I12,000
10J9,000
11K2,000


The process would start pairing down from Rank 1 but instead of only being like this:
A vs B
C vs D
E vs F
G vs H
I vs J
K vs _

the algorithm would look at how close Guilds C through K are to Guild B. If any guild from C through K have 60% of the points of Guild B they'll be eligible to be paired with Guild A that day.

In our example table Guild B has 75,000 pts. 60% of that is 45,000. That means anyone with 45,000 points or more is eligible to be paired with Guild A that day.
So since it's only Guild C above 45,000 points, there's a 50% chance for each Guild B and Guild C to be paired with Guild A. BUT Guild D with only 43k points cannot be paired with Guild A at all for that day.

Let's say Guild C "won the roll" to be paired with Guild A. We now have:
A vs C

Now Guild B is our strongest free guild. Second strongest free guild is Guild D with 43,000 points. 60% is 25,800 points making guilds G through D eligible to be paired with Guild B. 25% chance for each:
B vs F

Rinse & Repeat down the list until Guild K is not paired because an odd number of guilds was signed up this day and the table would look something like this:
A vs C or 430,000 pts vs 48,000 pts
B vs F or 75,000 pts vs 32,000 pts
D vs E or 43,000 pts vs 38,000 pts
G vs H or 36,000 pts vs 22,000 pts
I vs J or 12,000 pts vs 9,000
K vs _

Notes:
Basically guild pairing goes by rank unless a guild below is close enough in strength to replace the weaker guild.
When the day is done everyone lost/gained 10% points of someone. So the day after, the calculations would be totally different even if the exact same guilds signed up.
Of course, adding more guilds at the bottom of the list that are really close in points would add a lot of variety there, which is something I was too lazy to do in this example (all I care are the top 3 pairs if I'm being honest lol). But the strongest guilds would only fight each other. No 430k points vs 4k point non-sense. Pretty sure that's not fun for either side those days and it's something the lower level guilds would like too.

Let me know what you guys think. Any input is welcome.
Magío
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This post has been edited 5 times, last edit by "Magío" (Jan 11th 2018, 11:08am)


Challenger

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6

Thursday, January 11th 2018, 1:40pm

since there is so few player left in the game even if we get a for example insomnia only once a month i will still know all their strong and weak players so having even 20 range in the list for pairing wont matter at all, you will still fight a guild you know everything about, i agree with magio
people shldnt mind fighting same people, since you weirdos like to do inis which is doing %100 same thing over and over again:D at least with just one person missing from one side can change sw completly.

add there one more thing tho, same pair will not happen 2 days in a row, that will be enough variety

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7

Thursday, January 11th 2018, 2:54pm

the algorithm would look at how close Guilds C through K are to Guild B. If any guild from C through K have 60% of the points of Guild B they'll be eligible to be paired with Guild A that day.

So, in your example, if Guild B had 400,000 points instead of 75,000 points, wouldn't that force Guild A and Guild B to fight each other each day for weeks to come? Until either one of those two guilds has lost over and over again to enter the point range of the guilds below?

8

Thursday, January 11th 2018, 6:26pm

there is a simple solution ! reduce the maximun of players in siege to 20 on both sides. then you will get a lot of nice fights ! btw. the performance will be better, too.

this is the big different between german guilds and the european ... we are to proud/stubborn to merge on our Servers to a big PVP guild like you do.

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Thursday, January 11th 2018, 6:53pm


since there is so few player left in the game even if we get a for example insomnia only once a month i will still know all their strong and weak players so having even 20 range in the list for pairing wont matter at all, you will still fight a guild you know everything about, i agree with magio
Didn't even think of it this way. Completely true. Population so small we' know each other so well already.
add there one more thing tho, same pair will not happen 2 days in a row, that will be enough variety
I loved having a rematch of a very good Siege War the next day. Specially on a close loss. If we add this that will never be possible to happen. But if the majority of the community would rather have this as an extra rule, sure. Maybe no fourth time in a row, make it a "Best of 3" kind of deal if two guilds are point locked. All I'd want to stop would be Rank 1 vs Rank 16 guild pairing that is going on at the moment.

the algorithm would look at how close Guilds C through K are to Guild B. If any guild from C through K have 60% of the points of Guild B they'll be eligible to be paired with Guild A that day.

So, in your example, if Guild B had 400,000 points instead of 75,000 points, wouldn't that force Guild A and Guild B to fight each other each day for weeks to come? Until either one of those two guilds has lost over and over again to enter the point range of the guilds below?
Yes, but you're assuming they both sign up every single day forever. If they did, I would have no issues with that personally. If both Guild A and Guild B are so far away from the rest it is for a reason. Better gear, better players, etc. If Guild C suddenly gets stronger by gearing, recruiting people, it will be able to get in the mix with time.

Right now we have Asgard and Immortal in similar positions to your example. How many times have they actually faced each other? Once, as far as I know. I would like to think both sides enjoyed it very much and would like to repeat it again. I watched the video, it was crazy.

It would be difficult to add a perfect system. I truly believe my suggestion is miles better than what we have now. Can it be refined? Sure. Adding restrictions to how many times the same match-up can happen in a row would be a good idea. Once is too little in my opinion, but I don't hate it. See reply to Challenger above.

there is a simple solution ! reduce the maximun of players in siege to 20 on both sides. then you will get a lot of nice fights ! btw. the performance will be better, too.
How will this stop a pairing between a Rank 1 and Rank 16 guild? You think guild strength would just be closer by having fewer people on each side?
Magío
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Challenger

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Thursday, January 11th 2018, 7:00pm

there is a simple solution ! reduce the maximun of players in siege to 20 on both sides. then you will get a lot of nice fights ! btw. the performance will be better, too.

this is the big different between german guilds and the european ... we are to proud/stubborn to merge on our Servers to a big PVP guild like you do.
actually we are also stubborn/proud about this thats why both dl and exer is half merc half real member:D

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DEACTIVATE WISHING WELL NPCS !!!!


Fearcappers: In recognition of your overwhelming victory, let's call it a draw


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11

Thursday, January 11th 2018, 7:27pm

How will this stop a pairing between a Rank 1 and Rank 16 guild? You think guild strength would just be closer by having fewer people on each side?
right. there we will be more strong guilds on the same level! no place for gate-twinks, no place for all the buff-twinks. with every twink you lose a active place in the group.

and @Oldass

you dont want to do that, trust me .. the siege for you would be so boring as for Asgard or Immortal a long time. :P

cu in 30 Minutes X(

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Thursday, January 11th 2018, 11:04pm

there is a simple solution ! reduce the maximun of players in siege to 20 on both sides. then you will get a lot of nice fights ! btw. the performance will be better, too.

this is the big different between german guilds and the european ... we are to proud/stubborn to merge on our Servers to a big PVP guild like you do.

this is not so simple because you forget register macros/addons which then makes people end up meeting 300 points and below guilds. i don't think anyone is/should be responsible for the pride/stubbornness of players
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Challenger

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Friday, January 12th 2018, 12:32pm

How will this stop a pairing between a Rank 1 and Rank 16 guild? You think guild strength would just be closer by having fewer people on each side?
right. there we will be more strong guilds on the same level! no place for gate-twinks, no place for all the buff-twinks. with every twink you lose a active place in the group.

and @Oldass

you dont want to do that, trust me .. the siege for you would be so boring as for Asgard or Immortal a long time. :P

cu in 30 Minutes X(
well you saw mercs make guilds inconsistent, nabs prefered to do sw on their real guild (which was all just ch/m and heal spam on gates by their enemy) and we got rekt, same with dl if the real owner of the chars dont show up, the mercs who play his alts dont show either

20 ppl max wont end buff alts tho which shldnt end because some us want to make the best of the gear we made by buffing to max despite the risk of overbuffing and losing some permanent buffs like housekeeper which i do sometimes:D

however maxing char limit to 20 will change class balance too, wls are most effective when both sides have few ppl so no need to buff a class that is alr one of the best classes and most will prefer the chaos of 25 fighters from both sides(and buffer, merit farmer, upgarder alts and afk ppl)

So magios solution is better for more balanced pairings imo

Challenger, Oldass


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DEACTIVATE WISHING WELL NPCS !!!!


Fearcappers: In recognition of your overwhelming victory, let's call it a draw


RIP Isiltir and Agenor. Never forget.


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14

Friday, January 12th 2018, 6:26pm

Ladies and Gentlemans, there is one simple truth:
"Pairing system is half automatic" ... if you observe carefully in moment of changing from stage "Registration" to stage "Preparation" .... there is a 1-3-4 secons delays for "some guilds" in most cases they are in top5 registered (this is in popular 20:00 CET SW case) rest of SW-s noone care for :)
so for me is:
1. some "bug in case manual intervention of pairing"
2. "specific list of guilds" that are pairing in fifferent way from other ( in first 20)
3. why if you reg if you reg 5 min before end of "registration" you dont get oponent?
maybe becouse "pairing man" is done with his job and you are out of "calculations"?
Ha Ha ha!
Anyway my advise is simple "make char for 3-4 k k k gold stats only HD pvp gear ofc make it +25 all items" and do SW on 2k points :P
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15

Saturday, January 13th 2018, 2:48pm

So magios solution is better for more balanced pairings imo
may be :D but how we will you get balanced pairings with unbalanced guilds ?

Big congratulations to Dragonlords to be now the strongest PVP in Europe (really meant that), but it will be the same like all guilds over 200k points. You have fun 3-6 month and then it starts to become boring. Most opponent will not fight unfortunately. and a new big guild will born.
so i personal think, if you reduce the ppl, there will be 20 strong guilds and not only 3-4 and they would be stay longer.

Ladies and Gentlemans, there is one simple truth:
and here is a simple truth from my side : We all wants to fight in siege and have exciting fights. nobody wants to be slaughtered

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Gala" (Jan 13th 2018, 3:28pm)


Magío

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Monday, January 15th 2018, 2:27am

will be the same like all guilds over 200k points. You have fun 3-6 month and then it starts to become boring. Most opponent will not fight unfortunately. and a new big guild will born.
so i personal think, if you reduce the ppl, there will be 20 strong guilds and not only 3-4 and they would be stay longer.
That's just a population/attitude problem.
and here is a simple truth from my side : We all wants to fight in siege and have exciting fights. nobody wants to be slaughtered
Which is what happened in the top two Siege Wars on here:


This shouldn't be happening imo. Should've been 100% DL vs Exer. Kampf and Forsaken vs each other or other 2k pt guilds from the list. That's 4 guilds that got screwed over on Sunday.

Reducing the amount of people per guild and implementing a pairing system like the one I suggested are not mutually exclusive. You can do both, or only 1.

Problem with only reducing the maximum amount of ppl per guild is the fact that it still won't fix the fact that super strong guilds get paired with weak guilds.
Magío
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17

Monday, January 15th 2018, 9:50am

Problem with only reducing the maximum amount of ppl per guild is the fact that it still won't fix the fact that super strong guilds get paired with weak guilds.
You are right. BUT we had Astral with 3k points and they kicked our Ass and Siege was fantastic. With your paring system you will have only 4 Guilds to fight each other and trust me that we will boring, that will be fix the probem for 2 month. and this you could have in an easyer Way : declaration of war , i dont know how it is named on the english clients. So there the "big guilds" can choose the opponent by themself.

btw. i made two screenshots from two different sieges against exercitus. the first we got overrunned, no chance. a few days later, some ppl missing at exercitus and we won the siege. here you can see that the count of ppl decide a siege.
Gala has attached the following images:
  • first.JPG
  • second.JPG

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Gala" (Jan 15th 2018, 10:23am)


18

Monday, January 15th 2018, 11:01am

<3 exer and the stable sw perforamance what a fairytale :) but about pairing system i think in some way it work jsut is ment for more guilds/ppls and lack of this make it work weird and tbh i dont think some easy / too hard sw is not ok from time to time is good to happen ( personal opinion ofc)

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Monday, January 15th 2018, 4:55pm

To be honest I like the idea of reducing the maximum amount of people per guild. I'm going to explain why.

The last merge between european et german servers created those strong guilds you can see nowadays. Basically it became Server VS Server siege wars (except for Exercitus & Dragonlords).

From Nuada (which didn't have the chance to be merged) we've seen this change as for Nocturnus it became impossible to fight against most of the top guild because their number greatly increased. Now our guild is dead and guess what ? We're fighting in Exercitus (here you have a clue about stable performance of Exercitus).

I mean, if some people play in other servers, it's mostly because there's some slots available for SW there. If you reduce the maximum amounts of people per guild, you'll probably see some guilds rising again (of course it also means that some guild will loose power). More top guilds = Less mispairing

Or maybe merge all servers :P


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Monday, January 15th 2018, 5:08pm



Or maybe merge all servers :P


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